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Is turned on and available on your toolbar. I would like to acknowledge and thank Autumns Online Professional Development Sponsor, Marshall.

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We appreciate your ongoing support. So now I would like to welcome today's speakers, Glenn Gardner and Nicole Mercier.

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I'm sorry if I miss pronounced your name because I forgot to ask you that. Thank you, Glenn.

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Nicole, Glenn, take it away, please.

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Perfect. And thank you, wherever you are in the world, I think we do broadcast. Worldwide, I know some people from Australia asked if this was being recorded.

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So, so thank you all for joining in. And, a little bit about my firm.

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I've been recruiting. Academic tech transfer people. For the past 22 years.

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So we work with tech transfer offices. We work with universities like Wash you in St. Louis where Nicole works.

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Research institute hospitals and like said we've been a proud partner of autumn for 4 22 years and we solely focus in this world of academic.

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Transfer with that I will let Nicole do her introduction on herself.

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Sure. Hello everybody. Nicole Mercier. I leave transfer for Washington University in St.

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Louis. I have been working with Glenn. I should have looked that up, but I feel like an over a decade.

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Long time. Yes.

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Where we've been working together and use gardener innovation quite a bit to hire, lots of different types of individuals into our office.

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So I'll just give you a perspective of the wash you office. We handle about we have about 800 million probably close to 2 billion now dollars and research funding so we're a large operation.

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We have a team of about 33 people, our licensing staff, is 13. And, we are kind of a cradle to grave model in our office with support underneath.

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So if that makes a difference to how you interpret anything I say, I'll give you that perspective there.

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Perfect. So, when we were asked by, autumn to do this educational seminar, with a topic, topic that we're talking about is really the importance of a deal sheet and how to you know, advance your career and how a deal sheet is important.

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And so, what we did is we sent out using the, the autumn message board.

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Nicole sent it out to her, her director list, I sent it out to the general list.

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I think we also send it out to, to practice, which would be a sister organization and some other tech transfer organizations across the world.

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But at the end of the day, we got about 50 responses and 64% said that yes a deal sheet is important.

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24% says sometimes and the people that didn't really value a deal sheet, well they're probably not on this call anyways, but that is a small.

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12%. So at the end of the day, I'm gonna go with, 88%, people out there think that a deal sheet is important and that's what we're talking about today.

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And we would really encourage you all to to chime in. This is we don't want to hear this Nicole and I drone on.

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We really want to make this an interactive conversation about, you know, questions you have. etc.

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So kind of with that, I'm gonna leave into you know what kind of deals are there? Yes.

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Hey Glenn, can I just say to people if you're wondering where I land in those 3 buckets I'm in the sometimes 2 yes buckets so I will get into that but that's how I answered.

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Perfect. Nicole, do you wanna kinda just briefly go over this and I know that you're gonna really key in on the exclusive patent license so I'll just turn this over to you.

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Sure. So I've seen a lot of different types of deal sheets, over this time.

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So I should have said that I have been in tech transfer for about 2 decades. And then leading the office at Wash U, fully for the last decade and then partially before that as director of licensing.

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And I would say that, you know one of the let me just back up real quick so one of the smart things that you can do we're going to get to on another slide is to really think about what it is that you have done.

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And where you've contributed to. But these are some of the elements that will come out for you.

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So thinking about exclusive licenses for me. That's where I'm, that's where I'm the sometimes, cause that's if I look at a deal sheet, I wanna just hone in on that piece right there because that tells me that as a like a licensing professional or somebody doing these deals.

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You have the experience and what level you can come in at. I'm also looking at, you know, have you done it on your own or you know have you supported somebody?

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Have you been the person training? So there's a lot of different questions that come in and it's not just these single elements, like how many have you done?

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There's lots of different types of not exclusive licenses and so, you know, if I'm interviewing somebody, I want to get into the granularity of that.

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Have you done, a lot of material license? So let me give you an example. There's one example in our office actually multiple, but where we just do so many of these not exclusive licenses that we can't negotiate them.

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So. I know that like you know, deal sheets coming from somebody from my team and they put a lot of the same type of deal on there.

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I'm gonna ask, have you negotiated that every time or is that a plug-in play type of license?

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There are also non exclusive licenses where that are complex. It might be for material or it might be for patented piece of IP.

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Or software, but I'm trying to get to an understanding of, you know, what are not exclusive licenses, you know, what is that for real that you're sharing with me on your deal sheet.

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So I think that's why I'm in the sometimes camp, cause if I can't pick out, what's really important on your deal sheet, then to me it's you know I asked the question have you patted your deals or you just throwing everything in there.

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Confidentiality agreements material transfer you know some of those can be wrote and you know routine and there's not a whole lot of negotiating of those sometimes and other times there are.

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So I'm really looking for the complexity of what you've learned, through all of these deals.

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I want, yeah, depending on the level of person that I'm looking for, I want you to know, you know, that you have been a lead on an inter institutional agreement or you've supported them, but all of this is going to play into what is the level I think that you can operate in our office and recognizing that no 2 offices are the same.

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If you're coming from a small office, and you might have done all of these and then the lead on all of these and really had to come up to speak quickly.

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So it's not a knock, but It does, we're trying to discern, how much training are we going to have to do and is that appropriate for the level at which we're hiring?

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So, lynn, maybe you wanna comment a little bit more.

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Yep, yeah. And so I'm coming from a, a little different side of the fence than Nicole is and first of all since Nicole said she's been there at wash you for 2 decades and the call started when she was 12.

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Yeah, that's great.

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So we're not talking about child labor laws here, but. So that's the thing.

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No.

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So what I'm looking for more is just, it's just kind of numbers. You know what I mean?

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I and and there's some different things when we're working with some of the national labs that are not there's a raise your hand button.

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I don't know if anyone on this call comes from national labs, but national labs are very, very big on creators.

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These cooperative research and develop agreements and work for other agreements where you know and it's funny I got my start in tech transfer creating with Patel which is here in Columbus so I was intimately and overwhelmingly inundated with creators and work for other agreements.

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So if you're talking to a national lab, you may wanna highlight that and I don't think that Nicole, what percentage of craters is your office?

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We don't.

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Negotiate. Okay, you don't and so on the national labs that that's Probably makes up 80 or 90% and if anybody from a national lab wants to is on this call and chime in for that the other thing that I learned, we, did a search many years ago for GE licensing and ventures.

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We, we mainly work with universities, but a case of we do work with some industry clients. And I learned a term called first seat and second seat.

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Do you see that much Nicole? Do you do you have a second seat negotiator and and maybe if you can kind of explain how industry comes to the negotiating table as opposed to the academic side, which I think this was a shocking thing to me as a head hunter.

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Do you want to touch on that?

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I think that's I think that's true. So we do not always use the first seat in the second seat.

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It depends on the deal and the complexity. And sometimes we even use a third seat, right, when we are, you know, when it's really complex, but you're right, industry.

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From the other side is bringing to the table, the BD leave, lead. Perhaps another VD person, and their legal.

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And oftentimes when you might have calls, to negotiate the agreement, all of them might be on board.

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And in the background, you've got scientists and finance people and all these other people that are supporting them.

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And then you come into the tech transfer office and we're all drinking from a fire hose trying to get these deals done as quick as possible.

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Trying to work with our legal, you know, over in general council or wherever they sit for you.

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So when we come into a deal, I would say our licensing team always starts the negotiation. The primary team member, unless they're junior and we know it's a complex, if it's a startup, then we would have a senior person.

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So we would have to be the people there with them. But you know, as the deal looks like it may be getting more complicated, our directive licensing, Lena, Pabu might sit in.

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When it gets really complicated, Lina and I are both sitting in on it. So it, you know, it's I think it's the level of resources we all have to dedicate, right?

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We just don't have that.

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And, and, which brings up an issue, I'm not gonna say a problem, but this is, you know, I could the academic tech transfer after recruiting some for industry and recruiting for academia.

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You know, typically academia is outgunned and I know that they're the one that comes to mind briefly is Mount Sinai Innovations in New York City.

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So, how they set up their office is when they go to the negotiating table to more mere industry, they have a BD person, deep scientific PhD and they try to pair that with an IP.

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JD person and so they're their typical thing and if Eric gleams on this call he can jump in and correct me but I think they are trying to come to the table with 2 people and obviously that's a resourcing issue, but like Nicole said, by definition, academic transfer tends to be outgunned in this, in this situation.

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And we'll we'll advance to the next slide.

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Okay.

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Yeah, so there's 2 questions in there, Glenn. One of them is, not seeing sponsored research on the list so yes collaborative agreements are certain pieces and elements that we see and we would look at.

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Our office does not negotiate. We're not responsible for negotiating. Collaborations and sponsored research agreements.

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I know some other offices are. So it, you know, if that is what you have, I would list that.

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For sure.

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And then speaking of that, I think this is an important topic, Nicole. So, and I'm just talking very general and, and don't take what I'm saying as a gospel.

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I'm only on the sidelines as a recruiter. But what I'm seeing a lot more now is A lot of times these sponsored research agreements have becoming Sponsored research agreements and industry partnerships.

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Have been coming becoming a lot more prevalent. That are leading to licensing. So can you talk about so I don't want to say the licensing is going down where sponsored research is going up but that may be the trend.

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Can you talk about that a little bit?

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Yeah, I think it's school dependent, right? Every school has different relationships with industry. But I know at Watch You, we are establishing large partnerships right now.

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So we just, we just, And now it's our partnership with Deerfield. That was though dearfield has 20 other schools they've done partnerships with that was still I would say.

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In intensive discussion and negotiation with them with a agreement that's largely not necessarily, you know, something we're negotiating every point on or starting from the beginning.

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But there was still a lot of time there and so how does that and and we negotiated all the license provisions and what that would look like.

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If we spin companies out, we have also done master agreements with Centen and Mallancra and A.

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S. All these are in the public domain. And each of these are an intense agreement where yes, somebody I've been brought in or somebody high level for my team has been brought in to negotiate the intellectual property on these to negotiate the license pieces of these agreements.

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And so, you know, you're doing some upfront work, that leads into these, you know, larger collaborations where you hope come licenses, right?

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Because there's a lot of work put into these master collaboration agreements that are for millions and millions of dollars.

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And I would say that yeah, if you've done something like that, you want to highlight that and you can say that you worked in a team of people but you were fully responsible for, negotiating the IP portions or the license portions or whatever it is that you have responsibility for.

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And just to piggyback on what you said about these master service agreements. So I and I'm just renewing my nacro membership.

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And then they're more in this space. But I've had I've heard 2 schools of thoughts on these master service agreements.

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One are small, nimble, ad hoc. Agreements versus these very large complex. I know that I just open up a whole can of worms on that one.

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Can you touch base on that?

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That would be relevant. I think when you're thinking about a deal Yeah, so we see, in our, at our university, there might be an industry partner who's looking to gain access to a specific lab and in that specific lab they've They're forming a relationship with that faculty member.

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And others in that lab. And so I would call those small and nimble because you're really focused on a single project.

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There's usually, but it's kind of gets to us, you know, the budgets been worked out, largely the scope of work has been worked out.

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So you can start to understand what intellectual property may be involved. Excuse me. And then what might, you know, come out of it, but some of these master collaboration agreements, they're very complex in terms of You don't know what products are going in.

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So how do you understand? What is the IP that is going to come forward? Excuse me.

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I should.

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And what is the, background IP and so you're negotiating some of these terms without really knowing what the projects are.

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That are going into it. So you have to keep those pieces in your head. Okay, who's likely to come under this type of agreement?

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So we have one master agreement that's in, the therapeutic space. We know that they're looking for predominantly small molecules.

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Also large molecules, they're probably not looking for ASO type molecules. So that helps us to really understand you know what are the impacts of the terms. So that helps us to really understand, you know, what are the impacts of the terms for negotiating.

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But when you go to a large, you know, what are the impacts of the terms for negotiating?

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But when you go to a large, platform deal like what you go to a large, platform deal like what we have with Centina, you know, with Deerfield, platform deal like what we have with Centina, you know, with Deerfield, they're looking more broadly at technologies that are coming out of the universities. They're looking more broadly at technologies that are coming out of the universities.

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So it could be, you know, for centina could was a lot of make possibly digital health, it could have been therapeutics, medical device, so it was across the spectrum.

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Of what we were looking for.

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There's another question. What should deal sheets should look like for an entry level early career.

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I, I don't think it's different between early or late career. And I'm afraid to click on anything on my computer because I'll lose both both my screens that I'm doing with and I'm not that good with Zoom Zoom Meetings, but if somebody could go to my website, it's not the blog page.

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I think it's called Innovation Insights and just search on the word deal sheet and it's someone could put that link in the chat but we have a couple sample deal sheets.

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And I'm not saying these are these are perfect. But with that, we're gonna kinda move on to the next slide.

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Which says Let's see if I can figure out how to do this. Okay, there we go.

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So, So where can you find these reports to pull into your deal sheet? And I just reached out to.

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To my friend who I recruited at NTM which is which is a platform and and I think whatever your IP management, I think you can search on that and you can pull these reports out of.

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Nicole, I think you said you wanted to talk about the platform that you're on.

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Yeah, we use Innovate IP. So, It's gonna be did essentially you're just going in there and searching under your deals so segment for your name look at your active agreements people possibly inactive but basically the ones that closed and so you'll want to highlight all the deals that you closed and got to the finish line.

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You may also want to put any that are pending that are far down or you know were the negotiations were terminated but they were pretty complex I think all of that does count.

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But you want to make sure to highlight, you know, the differences there. You know, the question that was asked around.

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What should be in a deal sheet and I think someone put in the in the chat, you know, your examples.

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You know, for me, and again, this is where I come in this sometimes bucket.

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I'm not necessarily looking for how much money you brought or you are bringing it to the university.

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Because Honestly, it's about how you negotiate. So I wanna know that you are able to close deals.

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I want to know, you know, how those deals went. I want to know that you've done a broad spectrum and you've had a lot you know some experience doing exclusive licenses and particularly startup because those are relevant and those are the ones that are sort of driving your product pipeline for the university.

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That's where my mindset is when I look at a deal sheets. So, I, I may look if you put it in there about how much, you know, sort of magnitude of the deal, but, it is not going to exclude somebody in my mind from.

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You know getting an interview or not there might be other people who you know Kafka, I've talked about it, Kathy Q is the previous director of Stanford.

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She always talked about the eat what you kill model. That's not our model at wash you.

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So to put magnitude in there, is not going to resonate. We're service or operation primarily.

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And what we want to know is how you get deals done because we want to get deals done.

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We don't want to do bad deals. So let me put that out there. But I don't if we're talking about you know the difference of $5,000 I'm gonna ask why are you arguing over that let's just do the deal.

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If we're arguing over you know a quarter percent royalty You know, I don't care about that a half percent if you are only to get, be able to get, you know, a 2% royalty on a therapeutic deal.

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I don't know all these deals are so different. How am I supposed to understand what, you know, the meats and bounds, the parameters that came into the discussion or the negotiation.

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So that's why it's a little bit less important to me, on the magnitude.

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But what you've done, how many you've done, whether you were sitting in the driver's seat, you know, first chair, second chair, those types of things are very important for me.

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Perfect. Perfect. See, here. So the, Oh, let's see here.

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I think you skipped one slide. Oh, backup. Yeah, there you go.

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Yep, thank you. Thank you. Somebody's got to keep track of what I'm doing because It's not very good.

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Okay.

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So these are just some bullet points. That we had from, from the survey that we put out, it said that there's another when employee leave so we we had a comment need to be careful on in TM or Wellspring or Innovate, whatever it is.

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Often employee takes up her management. Yeah, so that's a very good, very good point. So, you know, it may carry over.

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So if you go to UVAs IP management system, even though Allen's at Vanderbilt now made maybe his names and involved in and all that stuff wait way back when so

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Well, I think, sorry, can you say, because I don't actually see that comment.

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Yeah, so the comment was He says, sometimes be careful on your IP management system because as a person leaves.

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Yes.

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Someone else may take over that record. So, that's a very good point.

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Yes, yeah, so that's a good point. Saying that you're managing it and that you weren't the negotiator of it?

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Yes.

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Yeah, so, and once again, Don't lie, you know, this is a big, don don't falsify anything.

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This is a very small community. That we're in and Several moons ago, I had a person that said he was, he was a DO and he was he was and the same thing with ABD all but did dissertation but when we did the due diligence we found out that this guy He went through all the school, but he never finished his board to become a D.

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Great person. Love the person. We end up pulling the offer and he is blackballed because It was untruth, so, oh, you know, don't, you know, and then these are just standard things with your resume.

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Don't embellish. This is a small community that we play in and just Good, badter and different. It is where you're starting from. So, you know, so.

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And if something sounds too good to be true, it may be good too good to be true. Let's see where we have.

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We have another.

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Alan's name is still in the UVA database.

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Okay, I can confirm. Yep, so thanks, thanks, Josh. So it, is, is a case manager.

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Yeah.

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So, Alan, if, if you ever want to go back. To Charlottesville, you'd probably be welcome.

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You can pull out your deal sheet.

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You'd have to talk to Rich about that. And that's a whole different thing. You can fill out your deal sheet.

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:35.000
So, when's a good, so we'll get back to the things. So some of the, some of the comments.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:27:01.000
That we got that we brought what we're talking about some different things so what one thing that came up is the word pace load So obviously a person that's coming from for from MIT or Stanford and some person that's coming from northern Arkansas University and I don't even know if there's a northern Arkansas University so I I apologize if someone's on the call from that, but

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:08.000
they're gonna have very different case loads. And so Nicole can can you want to comment on that a little bit?

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:14.000
Yeah, so I think that speaks to volume. And the volume at which, agreements are coming at you.

00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:30.000
So we want to make sure that somebody can handle the volume that's coming out of Washington. So, we've recently hired several people who didn't necessarily have the same volume as wash you.

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:40.000
But we were able to understand, you know, what they would be. Capable of doing and would they be able to come up to speed quickly on the volume that wash you has.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:52.000
So I think that's the big thing on case load. Somebody actually put in the chat about, the managing a transfer license case can take a lot of effort. Managing a transferred license case can take a lot of effort.

00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:00.000
A lot of them can be out of compliance that is true but again I think what Glenn said, you need to just.

00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:08.000
Share that so if you have renegotiated the license and it led to an amendment then that's fine, but you aren't gonna go back and say that you did the license agreement.

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:22.000
If you had to do an amended and restated agreement, then yeah, maybe you do want to say you've done that and restated agreement, then yeah, maybe you do want to say you've done that license agreement because effectively you've renegotiated it from scratch.

00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:29.000
I see no one can see the chat. So we'll just, we'll just read it.

00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:30.000
Okay.

00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:39.000
So if you want, you can put. Your questions into the QA which is where people will see it if you put in the chat when and I will read them.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:46.000
To you.

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:47.000
Thank you.

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:57.000
There's another thing about caseload and my partner Lisa Rooney, she had a 20 year in career in tech transfer before she came over and became a recruiter and tech transfer before she came over and became a recruiter and we had a 20 year in career in tech transfer before she came up here and became a recruiter and career in tech transfer before she came over here in tech transfer before she came over here and became a

00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.000
recruiter and became a recruiter. And we had a very opposite view on case load. So what I said, and I'm going to pick on a recruiter and we had a very opposite view on caseload.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:08.000
So what I said, and I'm gonna pick on MIT and Stanford for just these ones and I guess I could throw wash you in that group too.

00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:17.000
But, you know, and what my view was MIT and Stanford. It's like one year at MIT and Stanford is like dog years, right?

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:23.000
It's like the volume you're going to see is 7 times what you're going to see at a small university.

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:33.000
And what Lisa's view. Was different. She says what I would rather see is something that's coming out of this and I'm gonna pick on this northern Arkansas University, this fictitious school.

00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:42.000
And Lisa, Lisa did work at Ohio University, which is a smaller office. She says to get deals done at these smaller offices.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:49.000
That maybe doesn't have the world-class scientific, you know, thing like like a washing school of medicine.

00:29:49.000 --> 00:30:00.000
You have to be a lot more creative. Do you want to touch base on that on creativity with coming out of small offices?

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.000
Okay.

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:07.000
Yeah, so I actually have never worked in a small office. The other office I worked in was, children's in Boston, which is probably, I would say in medium office, but probably larger at that time.

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:08.000
Big, the other big L.

00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:19.000
Yeah, so, I haven't had direct experience being in a smaller office, but I think you have to be able to get alignment is really maybe what she's talking about and that takes some extra effort.

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:32.000
That You know, I would say we have a dedicated, general counsel who knows that he's going to be reviewing our deals who knows that my team is going to be calling him.

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:45.000
I have dedicated staff in my office that review contracts. I have other people that if I don't, know the answer or I want to think creatively on language.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:57.000
I can just go to the office next to me. I think if you're in a smaller office, you just don't have all of those resources at your fingertips.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.000
And so you just don't have all of those resources at your fingertips. And so you do need to think creatively about where you can get some of those answers from.

00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:16.000
So, and also like hunting down people to, you know, maybe your general counsel is spanned across multiple different groups within the university and doesn't have the same time dedication.

00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:36.000
That mind has so getting everybody on board is probably another challenge at a small university. But you, using your network using your autumn network to find other people in tech transfer, ask them, I mean, anyone on my team would be happy to sit down and, you know, think about language that would help, you know, somebody from a small office.

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:46.000
Get creative or we'd be happy to share. You know, how we might have resolved a problem, in, you know, that, you see that it might be more common to us.

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.000
You know, we'd be happy to redact anything confidential and just sort of share that language and you wouldn't know what the deal was or anything like that.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:05.000
So, you know, using your resources to get deals done probably does. You know, differ.

00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Which goes back to the plug for the autumn community. The very collegial and you know I'm gonna put in the plug for the autumn community.

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:08.000
It's a very collegial and you know, I'm gonna put in the plug for the autumn community.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:20.000
It's a very collegial and you know, I'm gonna put in the plug for everyone to if they're not signed up to attend the autumn annual meeting in San Diego next month.

00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:27.000
Once again, you know, it's just. This, this is a very unique organization and it's a very unique.

00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:38.000
World that we're in. I think the number of transfer people in the world that people have done it on the academic or national lab or research hospital.

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:51.000
I think that numbers probably only about 7 or 8,000 people in the world that has actually done this. Taking out the people at Pharma, taking out the IP attorneys that are that are on the outside of this.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:33:03.000
And it's a very small, but it's a very collegial world. I know that, you know, yeah, I monitor the autumn message board you say hey I'm having a problem with this You know, small molecule, I'm having a problem with this plant variety thing and people collaborate.

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:19.000
I know and then and say thanks for Nicole for operating that. And once again, this is the same thing that you'll see, at, autumn.

00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:20.000
Yeah, there's one other comment, Glenn. And I think this is a good point.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.000
Going on. Okay.

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:31.000
It's in the QA, but in a smaller office, you may spend more time on marketing and networking versus a larger office.

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.000
Which can be transactional. So I said at the beginning that we're set up as a cradle to grave model, but we have support.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:52.000
So I, yes, we have a director of communications. We have a technical marketing person. Both of them are able to help with doing marketing campaigns, writing the materials up, identifying the companies that are out there.

00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:59.000
Identifying the right contacts at those companies. So they have contractors that work for them that can identify the rate, company.

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.000
So licensing team doesn't spend a whole lot of time. Licensing doesn't even do the first touch.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:06.000
Licensing doesn't even do the first touch. Licensing doesn't even do the first touch.

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:14.000
So marketing does that first touch. And then licensing kind of gets involved. And then licensing kind of gets involved once we need to go back and forth with the party.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:29.000
That said, our licensing team does spend a lot of time thinking about partnering meetings. So not necessarily the you know, marketing campaigns that you would do by email, but our team does do a lot of phone calls and they will go to partnering.

00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:41.000
Meetings. So they are prepping up and involved in those materials, as well, which I understand maybe small offices don't have either enough technologies to take to make one of those partnering meetings meaningful or they might not have the money to go to one of those, but we find them pretty fruitful.

00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:51.000
So you're right. Stefan, you're gonna see different things, at different offices.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:35:09.000
And I think that's why getting back to like what today's topic is. The more granularity you can help, you know, us as a hiring manager, Glenn, as a recruiter, understand about, you know, what you're coming in with because those might be skill sets, that are valuable to the office.

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.000
So even if your deal sheet isn't as long as somebody else's and you have a lot of exposure in the marketing side or some other area.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:22.000
Letting us understand that is, helpful.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:28.000
Which since we're talking about partnering one of the bullets that was brought up in our question.

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:41.000
In our in our thing is different parking models and I think so the last position we recruited at Stanford was it was director of licensing and strategic alliances.

00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.000
So Nicole, can you talk about how important these? Strategic since you just signed a huge multi 1 million dollar deal with Deerfield.

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:59.000
Can you talk about these partnering models or strategic alliances and how important that is in the in the advancement in the in the tech transfer community.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:13.000
Yeah, so again, I think it's gonna depend on the office you apply to. We are, you know, my team is responsible for helping our sponsored research people.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:19.000
Better understand the IP sections, and, you know, certainly if there's licenses involved.

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:26.000
However, we've been working with some of the same people for over a decade now at our university and they know what to look for in IP sections and I would say that now they come to us with the very complex pieces.

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:41.000
So like if, if you're coming in your experience is a lot of collaborations and our office doesn't do collaborations.

00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:47.000
So here's what I would get out of it. I know that you've negotiated and I know you have negotiation skills.

00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:54.000
I know that, You have looked at a lot of different facets of an agreement.

00:36:54.000 --> 00:37:09.000
Some of them are found in licenses, but maybe you have an actually negotiated. License agreements and exclusive license agreements and thought about the IP provisions on a very deep level or thought about how do you put together the term sheet.

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:18.000
So those elements, you know, might come out of a license agreement where as a collaboration agreement, you're not getting into all of those details that are in a license agreement.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:26.000
And it doesn't mean that you don't have good skills to negotiate something, but it might mean that.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:38.000
If I wanna hear you as a senior person in my office who I just want to run and be able to train other people, I would say, you know, How do you show me how you have this skills to develop deal terms, and to think about deal terms and sort of these different pieces in a license agreement.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:48.000
That maybe aren't in a sponsored research agreement. Does that answer your question, Glenn?

00:37:48.000 --> 00:38:00.000
Yeah, no, I think it did. And then just kind of on this same. I know that I think it was Osage University Partners, Columbia, Autumn.

00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.000
Okay.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:08.000
That they all develop this standard template. Do you want to touch base on that a little bit?

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:13.000
Yeah, so I was not involved in that. I don't know if anybody on the call today is involved in that if you were and you want to put your nose please put it in the QA.

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:29.000
But yes, there was a group of leaders in tech transfer who got together with, some venture capital to say, Hey, what are the parts that we're always fighting over and how could we streamline this?

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:36.000
So I'm sure we could maybe send around or if somebody has that they could pop that into the QA piece.

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:46.000
So everybody can see it, but essentially it's a nice, template that you can go and sort of look at the different elements that come up in a.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:54.000
Startup deal. And look at the elements that are, you know, important.

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.000
You know, we've looked at it and it's super helpful. Are we gonna be able to use it in every deal that we do?

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:25.000
Nobody will pull elements from it. And, you know, we will certainly point to it quite a bit when, we get some push back where we think, you know, they're off the mark and we can kind of have this resource and tool where VCs and the tech transfer community came together and and did this but it's not going to be you know, something that solves all of your problems because all

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.000
these startup deals are different, but, it's, it's a super huge resource if you haven't seen it already.

00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:46.000
You should definitely look at it. And it may be very, very useful to schools that haven't had a lot of startups, you know, if you're if this is new to you and you have done a lot of startups, even, more helpful.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.000
Hmm. Thank you, Alan.

00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:56.000
Yes, and just sum up what Nicole said is. Don't reinvent the wheel that there's a lot of brain power that went into this and it's out there for the taking.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:01.000
So we'll go to the next, slide if I can figure out how to advance the slide.

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:05.000
Let's see.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:06.000
Yes.

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.000
And thank you to the people who put those links in the QA. I won't move those over, but we'll just keep them there so people can see it.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:18.000
So we talked about, you know, first seat versus second seat, which was. Kind of do deal highlights that we've talked about that.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:39.000
Press press related to a deal that this is something that I've seen on some some good deal sheets because if it's out there it's one thing for you to say it but if there's you know press releases saying ABC deal got acquired for 2.6 billion dollars or whatever or even if it's even if it's a hundred $1,000.

00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.000
That makes it just a little bit more impactful. So if there's not, we don't want to know confidential material here.

00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:53.000
We just want we just want to know you know ballpark and and I like I like to look for more more for numbers.

00:40:53.000 --> 00:41:03.000
So these pressure leases are good ones. Underlying tech for deal that that came up a few times in this thing and Nicole, do you want to talk about that a little bit?

00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:06.000
Yeah, sure. Well, again, I think, you know, when we're hiring, you're looking at the profile of your institution.

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:19.000
Our institution has a large medical school. Is much larger than any other school. We are third in the country for NIH funding.

00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:29.000
Most of our IP and technology is coming out of our School of Medicine. We also have a engineering school, 15% of what we see come out of the engineering school.

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:44.000
But when I look at the 13 members of my team on licensing. 3 of them are dedicated more towards engineering and of course they're not a hundred percent because they just told you the medical school is the biggest.

00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:59.000
So they help us with a lot more of the med tech stuff that might be coming out of the School of Medicine, but by and large, our team is more a PhD in the life science or maybe chemistry.

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:08.000
So what's underlying the tech tells me that kind of tech you are capable of maybe coming to watch you and reviewing.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:16.000
So, If I'm looking for somebody on the engineering side and you've done all life sciences deals, that might be not best fit for, you know, our office.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:27.000
And vice versa, but it may be that you have an engineering background and you have worked largely with medical school technologies.

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:37.000
Maybe you've done a lot of AI or computer science deals and we're starting to see a lot more of the digital health and the digital tools come out of our medical school.

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:41.000
Well, that could be a good fit for us and you've done a lot of deals in that area and we would look at that.

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:58.000
You know, positively in terms of, well, you know, maybe we were thinking we wanted somebody with a life science background who had done a lot of those deals, but you know, you've demonstrated you're capable of doing that and you know suddenly you make it into the pool of candidates we want to interfere.

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:04.000
Yeah, I'm gonna bring up another bullet point here. It says experience in negotiating contracts. In zip the industry.

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:11.000
So, so there are some offices, Stanford's included, Georgia Tech is included in this. And I don't know if you have this broken out, but the awesome industry contracts.

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:22.000
So and the awesome industry contracts. So, the awesome industry contracts so and the people that negotiate those contracts.

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:32.000
Tend to be different than our traditional autumn person can can you touch base on that? And is that broken out in your office like it is at Stanford and Georgia Tech?

00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:43.000
I'm sorry, can you say that again because I was trying to move everything somebody made a comment that you can only see the comments in the QA if they've been marked as answered live.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.000
So I just moved all the links over there while you were talking and I didn't listen.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:57.000
Okay, so that's okay that's okay that because I'm I could it multitasking on this stuff either so I'm actually very poor at multitasking on this stuff either. So I'm actually very, very poor at that.

00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:04.000
So thank you for that. So the question I have is, for instance, Stanford has the office of industry contracting.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:13.000
Georgia Tech does a very big industry contracting and and those groups are broken off of the tech transfer office.

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:19.000
And then a trend that I'm seeing is where does this fit? Is this fit in sponsored research?

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:32.000
Or tech transfer. So. Specifically as it relates to industry contracting. Can you talk about that and how does that fit in your office?

00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:46.000
Yeah, yeah, so. I think a lot of what we've talked about with. Respect to sponsored research would also apply here, but I think it is the age-old question of Where does industry contracts fit?

00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:50.000
Where does, sponsored research fit? And I will tell you that at WASH U, it used to be in the tech transfer office.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:45:04.000
Then it was bumped out into a group and then that group has pulled in people from us to be advisory more and more over the years.

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:18.000
And so it's not a clean fit anywhere. The other thing that's happening at our university is we have, offices that are going out now and trying to be proactive and getting industry collaborations.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:45.000
And so for example, the dear field deal, I was involved in that one from the beginning, but it was largely driven out of the medical school, by our, I don't even know if that office has a name, but one individual who is business development for the medical school and so he is pulling together the team that needs to be there once you know Deerfield sort of shows some interest.

00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:50.000
But he's going and having initial conversations and then pulling that team together. So you're right.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:46:08.000
It's different at all of these different universities. And I would say that universities are sometimes shifting them, and changing the way this looks, but in large part, when it comes down to looking at the contract and getting into the contract to actually ink the deal.

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:17.000
Tech transfer is always pulled into those. And so, you know, you may have a role, as a licensing professional in those.

00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:24.000
So if you don't, you know, if you're in an office that doesn't do sponsored research agreements or collaboration agreements.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:32.000
You just may wanna familiarize yourself with some of the terms on that you might see in those so that you can be effective at helping.

00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:37.000
And then also effective at explaining your role in it and really demonstrating to, the hiring people that you do understand.

00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:45.000
Sponsored research and collaborations, even if your office hasn't done them.

00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:53.000
There's another point I'd like to bring up, Nicole. And. There I spoke with.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:47:06.000
A business development person at a medical school in the Boston area and then I know another gentleman used to be on the the autumn board James Anowitz has an interesting title.

00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:16.000
And his title is Chief Business Officer at the medical school. Since you have such a big medical school, do you guys have one of those and where does that fit in with the tech transfer office?

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.000
Yeah, so actually I just saw James at JP Morgan. So he was telling me about his new role.

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:34.000
So I would say his role is kind of a kin to. The partnerships that we are trying to create in the medical school and we do have a couple of individuals.

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:39.000
I would say they don't have the title that James has. And so that is a little bit more.

00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:50.000
I would say high profile from, you know, an organization, but it is happening here where, business development is.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:48:03.000
Being sourced by the medical school in a different way. Looking at creating research partnerships in a different way, looking at sharing the profile of a different of the university to attract industry.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:08.000
You know, it for maybe it's partnerships, maybe, you know, we have a new.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:23.000
Large fund that we're driving, drug discovery and it could be that they're going out and trying to have conversations with different partners that can contribute to the drug discovery efforts that are being undertaken at wash you.

00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:31.000
So yeah, I think the face of the university is changing and you'll see it change too as personnel changes.

00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.000
So what are the interests of the different deans? That are coming into your school or as leadership changes happen.

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:49.000
You probably see some of the things these things blossom a little bit more based on interest. So our Dean of the Medical School is very interested in these large partnerships.

00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:57.000
I would say, you know, before he took over, we didn't do as much in this guys, but now we are doing a lot more.

00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:02.000
You know, is significantly more in the last, 7 years or so.

00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:25.000
So, and you brought up another interesting thing and, we, were engaged with Foxase cancer center to to hire this person that was not really a tech transfer person and not really a cheap business officer, but more involved in this translational research.

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:26.000
Yes.

00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:28.000
And and you know people are holding on to their IP longer and putting more development into that. Can you talk about that trend?

00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:32.000
I know I don't think we're getting off topic, but I think these are important topics.

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:53.000
I don't think so either because they will actually impact the deal sheet, right? So, In positive, I would say in positive ways, and maybe, I don't want to say negative.

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.000
And.

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.000
That's not the right word, but it may take you longer to get some deals, but some of the deals may, be really impactful and you might be licensing them at a phase one.

00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:20.000
Or maybe you're licensing them, you know, very close to IND. And so that type of negotiation is going to look different than when we license very early stage assets and being able to talk about, you know, what was your role, how did you follow the technology, how were you, engaged in the different relationships that needed to come together?

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:26.000
You know, to foster the deal that comes out in the end, but it may take more time to get that deal, you know, as the university is holding on to it longer.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:34.000
On the flip side, you may have never gotten that deal, right? So some of this early stage technology is just sitting.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:39.000
And we're not able to license it. So I think, you know, it's an exciting time and tech transfer.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:49.000
I there's lots of universities doing different things. It will impact your deal, but being able to really explain.

00:50:49.000 --> 00:51:04.000
What you've done, what your role is, how have you engaged in these different new new ventures is not the right word because we think of that as startups, but new opportunities that sit, in the university.

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:14.000
And again, that's why I go back to this sometimes because your deal sheet doesn't always give the full perspective of what you've done and what you know has been important.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:33.000
So one thing that Gardner, you know, frankly I would say I'm Glenn what's interesting is that if we do something on our own we don't necessarily get a deal sheet we have to ask for it if we want it but every candidate like if you're recruiting something for us, we get a deal sheet from every candidate.

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:34.000
Bye.

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:41.000
So it's very standardized. But what's nice about what Glenn and his team does is they also have, sort of a written piece that comes along with it, which is very question oriented.

00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:56.000
And I wouldn't say I'm not going to tell anybody to go put that together because I think if you submitted that to me on your own, I may not look at it, but because I can compare all the different candidates in a recruitment search.

00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:10.000
I can quickly sort of look at, different answers and compare them that way. But if I'm not getting that from everybody, I, it's not probably worth my time to look at.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:19.000
But it is a little bit easier than, You know, a cover letter for me to look at and we've defined we've predefined the questions with Gardner that we want to see answers to.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:26.000
So that makes it very useful as well, but that's a place where you can kind of layer in these other elements.

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:43.000
Why am I looking at applying it wash you? Well, because I see that Wash you has this translational fund and when I was over, you know, at my institution, I got really excited about that and here's what I did to engage with it.

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:47.000
That's very translatable, but it's not gonna come through in your deal sheet.

00:52:47.000 --> 00:53:02.000
And what Nicole said is, you know, we've tried to refine and we're always trying to refine more and improve more, but over the years that the packet that we present to our clients, we try to narrow it down to 10 people.

00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:15.000
And we give them a resume, a deal sheet, and a questionnaire like Nicole said, and we we work with each client to develop a custom questionnaire, but what the questionnaire does and I think Nicole knows this several things.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:23.000
One is it's not an easy, it's not a trivial exercise. And it really shows the person's commitment to put this stuff down on paper.

00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:37.000
So it shows our commitment to applying the position, but it really answers all of your top 7 questions that you have so when you do your first Zoom interviewer in person here, but you can really get down to the nitty gritty.

00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:45.000
And because because communication, written communication is so important that's going to show how this first can convey their thoughts.

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:51.000
With that. So I know these deal sheets, these questionnaires and deal sheets and packets that we put together are hard for the candidate, but it's somewhat but by design.

00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:56.000
Let's see if we can go to the slide here.

00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:08.000
Yeah. And I'll say one more comment on that. Glenn, I don't want people to write pages on it but I do want to know that you understand like what's different about what's unique in those answers.

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:14.000
Yep. And we're getting down down to the end here. So, a common it's interesting.

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:24.000
I don't know, there's not a show of hands thing, but. But a show of hands, how many people it is TRL the common term in the autumn community.

00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.000
Nicole, do you want to comment on that? I hope you know what

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:36.000
I do know what TRL is. I would say, I, I don't hear it used frequently.

00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:44.000
It's, it's a, it's used a lot in I core. And for TRL as technology readiness level.

00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:52.000
And I would say. You know, we use the word early stage a lot, right? And, I think.

00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:55.000
Goes from 0 to like 9. I can't remember what the final number is, but.

00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:58.000
And yeah.

00:54:58.000 --> 00:54:59.000
You know, we're like dealing with the 0 to 3 maybe 4 stage, which is still very early.

00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:23.000
So again, I think if you've done some deals that are at a later stage, you know, if it's you know, in, in the form of space and you've done a deal that got close to an IND, at you, what was different about that?

00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:25.000
Or if you've done one, you know, there was at the IT stage, what was different about that for you?

00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:39.000
Why was it exciting? I don't know that we actually see. I've never seen that in a deal sheet.

00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:40.000
Yeah.

00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:47.000
Yup, no, I've never seen a deal she either, but and one's getting TRL was embedded at NASA and like the comment from Josh, you know, TRL, it came out of NASA, it's more of a an engineering.

00:55:47.000 --> 00:56:01.000
Type thing and like Nicole said that the Academic tech transfer by definition is at very early stage. TRL one to 3 and things are trying to advance these things more in into that.

00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:11.000
So the SSS, thank you for for these comments that people are are adding that. Another, another, you know, important one to see is buy versus sell side.

00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:25.000
So if you're coming out of pharma You know, what an academic person and I get this all the time is, oh, these pharma people can't figure out that the inmates run the asylum at these big medical schools like Washi Medical School.

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:38.000
And that does have some, to it, but so if you're on the other side. Maybe, you know, talk about, Hey, I, it was a negotiation and out license.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:44.000
From ABC University so that that might be any comments on any of that.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:57:09.000
And so I mean, I don't know. Yeah, so whatever your experience is, I would just highlight that if you think it was unique and a little bit different, I mean, we're looking at deal sheets where, You know, you're trying to communicate, what have you done when I'm looking at those because we do so many, you know, exclusive licenses and startups, that is what

00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:19.000
I'm honing in on. But if there's some other experience that would be relevant, I think you would just wanna highlight that and the sheet for us.

00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:30.000
Yep. And let's see here we're. Any other thoughts and, and questions and I guess we only have about 3 more minutes we can carry over but people are more than welcome to log off.

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:44.000
Once I am doing a presentation. On on hiring tech transfer people at Automates that Tuesday at 1010 45.

00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:49.000
I invite everybody to go there. My panel will be Todd Share, who's a past autumn president.

00:57:49.000 --> 00:57:52.000
He's been running Emery, tech transfer for many, many years. One of very successful office.

00:57:52.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Osama, who is at, who is at Wakeforce Innovation and we're going to bring in a an immigration attorney because just like we've worked with Nicole try and Nicole's been very open to hire diverse people.

00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.000
Unfortunately it was very hard and if you saw the person that called it we were trying to hire he just landed at Cambridge University.

00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:19.000
I don't know if you saw that on LinkedIn, but it's like.

00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:33.000
It's not an easy thing and that's why we're having an immigration attorney. But at least Nicole and her group wanted this diverse workforce and diverse thought patterns from around the world.

00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:40.000
So it's just a whole other topic that we can go into at the autumn community. But I thank you, Nicole.

00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:41.000
Any closing thoughts?

00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:42.000
No, this has been a great session if people have questions. Feel free to, reach out.

00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:51.000
I'm not super good with LinkedIn, but that's my LinkedIn.

00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:57.000
So, my, but my emails on the wash you tech transfer website so you can find me there.

00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:58.000
Thank you, everything.

00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:08.000
Okay, thanks Nicole Glenn for that presentation today. A recording of this webinar will be available for viewing in the autumn learning center in about a week.

00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:16.000
And that's included with your registration. You'll get notification. Reminder to please complete the webinar evaluation following this session.

00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:27.000
It should open when you sign off. This helps us serve your needs in the future. So thanks again everyone for joining us and have a great rest of the day.

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.000
Thank you.

00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:35.000
Thanks.

00:59:35.000 --> 00:59:36.000
Thanks, Glenn.

00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:40.000
That worked out real well. I thought that it wouldn't work well.

00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:41.000
Yeah.

00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.000
Yeah, it's right. It is. People are still on just so you know.

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:48.000
Goes quick. Okay. Perfect.

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:49.000
Okay.

00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:51.000
We're not, we're not alone. So anyway, put that out there. Yeah, that went really well.

00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:54.000
But, thank you. Yeah.

00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:04.000
It was a lot of, You know, no matter how many times you say put things in QA and they put them in, they put them in chat, but you guys were on top of that.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:05.000
Perfect.

01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:06.000
Yeah, but then they said they couldn't. See what answers.

01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:16.000
So that was wonderful. Unless, right, I saw that and I was going to do just what you were doing and they were disappearing in front of me and I'm like, what the heck?

01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Yeah, that I didn't know. So he's like, oh shoot.

01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:26.000
Yeah, that was perfect. Thank you so much.

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:28.000
Yeah, perfect.

01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:29.000
Yeah, it's obvious you too, work together if I've worked in capacity together because yeah.

01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:34.000
Yeah, so. I think it went really well and then Nicole I was firing the questions at you rapid fire so But that Okay.

01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:35.000
Yeah, we've bantered a lot.

01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:36.000
Yeah, that was really good.

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:42.000
There's a lot and and once again, you know, she then Nicole's 1 one of the best in the business.

01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.000
Yeah.

01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:47.000
He does all the work.

01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:55.000
So I just know keywords and tricky phrases and frankly my partner Lisa as Nikola is like 10 times smarter than me but I think I've been involved in this world long enough that I can at least ask good questions.

01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:56.000
I don't know the Okay.

01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:01.000
Oh, totally. It was great. I mean, you filled the hour, so thank you.

01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:02.000
Perfect, perfect. Alright, well back, back, back to work.

01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:04.000
No. Next, all good. Alright, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna add this and, there are 11 people that gonna end it for them too and still on there.

01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:11.000
And so, thanks again very much.

01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:12.000
Thanks. Thanks, Go. Have a good one. Bye.

01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:13.000
Okay. Thanks, and bye, Lynn. You. Bye.

01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:14.000
I see you in, San Diego.

01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:18.000
AndDiana and youBye